SWM029 – Fantasy affairs, anal sex, golden showers and work during sex

9 thoughts on “SWM029 – Fantasy affairs, anal sex, golden showers and work during sex”

1. Anonymous says:

   A certain politician has brought “golden showers” into conversation recently. There is little research on urophilia (urine related fetishes), and the research that I can find suggests it’s common enough that most people have heard of it but not near a top 10 list.

   I’m not sure that Humiliation is the only reason people may find this stimulating. I 100% agree that if the purpose is to humiliate or to be humiliated then that is out of bounds. I think it may also be that people are intrigued generally by the taboo. Also, our “gross” response is finished when we are dialed down when we are turned on.

   As with all things fetish, I believe both parties need to be in agreement and neither pressured. Our relationship with God and your spouse is much more valuable than one intrigue.

   Jay, as usual, gives good advice to choose your thoughts so they don’t choose for you!

2. A says:

   I cannot honestly say I am defending golden showers as this has never been something that appealed to me or my husband.

   However, if we use ‘degrading’ as the standard by which we decide a sexual practice is acceptable or not I can easily see the wife swallowing semen as degrading, similarly the wife being ejaculated on (face, neck, etc.) As well as bondage being degrading….

   I’d be interested to see if anyone else weighs and also to see the differences between golden showers vs. some of these other sexual practices.

   1. Jay Dee says:

      I don’t think it’s “the” standard, but I think it’s part of it. As for what is degrading or not, I think if that opinion is held by either spouse, then that act should be considered unacceptable.

      I can certainly see why some people might see swallowing or being ejaculated on as degrading, but I can also see how for others it wouldn’t be. I can’t quite see that for urination. Perhaps it’s just a personal bias.

3. Joe says:

   A sexless marriage is clinically described as a married couple that copulates 10 or less times per year. There are plenty of sexless marriages in the church, and based on the amount of letters/email you receive. I think you would agree. While there is plenty of research done on libidos and sex drives, there is very little research on sexless marriages. If you peruse the numerous forums and message boards dedicated to the subject, you will find that very few marriages escape it. Your descriptions for differences in libido leave much to be desired. Given testosterone levels are normal, all men are spontaneously aroused. Put a woman on testosterone treatment and she too will become spontaneously aroused. Even an antidepressant such as Bupropion has been clinically proven to make women spontaneously aroused. More importantly, sex is such a sensitive subject, in such marriages, that one spouse will refuse to openly and honestly discuss the subject enough to look at any remedies. Since they are happy with the status quo. A very common cause I have seen in christian marriages, is the wife, who fought so hard to remain a virgin up until marriage, struggles to reconcile being required to openly be a sexual being. Granted, there seems to be just as many men withholding sex from their wives, as wives withholding sex from their husbands. While I don’t any research to back the claim, I am pretty confident this is the primary cause for infidelity and divorce in christian marriages.

   1. Jay Dee says:

      Yes, I’m aware of the clinical definition, I mention it often in various posts. The currently accepted estimate is that 10% of marriages are clinically sexless, though that’s in the general populace. It may be higher in churches. I’ve seen no research to support or deny that. As you say, there’s little research done there.

      The systems that combine to make up “sex drive” are varied and complex. I can’t cover it all in a single podcast episode. I do have a short pdf on the topic expanding it more here but, that too is shortened and links to 4 or 5 different posts on the subject. Because while we call Low-T a “cause” it’s really only an effector of the systems that are driving the actual mechanism. As well, “Low-T” is hard to pin down, because while there’s an accepted standard range for men and women, the truth is, what’s high for one person may be low for another and still fall into the “normal” range medically. I’ve seen no research anywhere to suggest that all men with “healthy” testosterone levels will be spontaneously aroused. In fact, any time I see the term “all”, it’s suspicious. And I’ve talked to many women that have tried testosterone treatments with no effect.

      As well, antidepressants affect people in a different way. My wife has been on bupropion for years and I can guarantee you it doesn’t increase sex drive. In fact, she is now coming off of it and her sex drive is finally returning. So, I’m afraid I don’t buy that “clinically proven” assertion because it’s personally proven otherwise. And there is a huge body of personal experiences I’ve gotten saying the same thing. There is no “cure-all” for sex drive because it’s too complex.

      However, the most common cause that I see for “low sex drive” are: misunderstanding of sex drive and arousal inhibitors. People think they’re low-drive or their wife is merely because they don’t get spontaneously aroused, or because when they do, it’s too subtle.

      And I’ve also seen no evidence to suggest that men withholding sex are as frequent as women withholding sex. It happens more often than people think that men withhold sex (about 10% of marriages), but I don’t believe they’re anywhere close to the same.

      Lastly, the primary cause of infidelity is rarely about sex and all the research agrees with that. Most affairs start as emotional affairs before moving to physical ones. The primary cause of divorce is affairs, but again, since affairs are generally not about sex, the neither are the divorces. The other causes are weight gain, money, lack of communication (this I’d say is the primary cause of most issues), abuse, incompatibility (which I think is really a communication issue), unhappiness and addiction.

      1. joe says:

         Look, we can both argue based on semantics, but that solves nothing. Raised libido is a side effect of Bupropion, listed on the box, and has been proven by clinical trials. No Rx will work on everyone, yet it doesn’t dismiss the scientifically proven claims. I won’t go further regarding the state and cures for libido issues as there are two sides: mental and physical. There are numerous cures for anyone’s physical inability to be aroused, which is why I brought up Testosterone and Wellbutrin. The mental aspects are more aloof and up for much debate, from which is pointless to argue. If you have not been exposed the amount of women complaining of their male spouses’ lack of sex drive, I advise you to read a few sexless marriage message boards such as reddit’s deadbedroom, iliasm.org, sexlessmarriage.yuku.com, and the archives of experienceproject (I Live in a sexless marriage). You will find about half of the participants are women. Regarding affairs and divorce, a simple google search will show that most are caused by one spouse feeling an emotional disconnect, which is a side effect of ALL couples with longterm sexual drama. Again, spend 5 minutes perusing the links I provided. By the time someone reaches out for help in a relationship where there is a great imbalance in sexual desire, the biggest obstacle isn’t the sex, but getting the other spouse to even admit there is a problem. One spouse can’t save a marriage. Godspeed with your blog and podcast.

         1. Jay Dee says:

            Most of the studies have noted that bupropion is not only as effective as other antidepressants but has the advantage of a lower impact on sexual functioning. Some other studies have found that bupropion can even enhance sexual function in certain individuals. – http://www.peoplespharmacy.com

            Side effect does not mean “clinically proven to”, it means it can, in some cases. Verbiage is very important.

            And yes, I get many emails from women, but that doesn’t mean it happens more often. We also have a cultural bias so that men think it’s “normal” if they are rejected, whereas women think something is wrong with them.

            That’s the problem with always reading one side of the discussion as on those sites, which, yes, I’m aware of. I’ve been in a sexless marriage too. Still in the same marriage. It’s just no longer sexless.

4. Anonymous says:

   On the topic of Golden Showers

   From my knowledge of BDSM lifestyle and culture, I am very aware that for many people who receive golden showers that the attraction is the feeling of humiliation or degradation, and similarly, many of those giving golden showers will enjoy the feeling of humiliating or degrading the recipient. However, for others, including myself, that is absolutely not the case, and if I ever felt that my partner was humiliating or degrading me I would not want to continue receiving golden showers.

   To broaden the debate a bit, I’ll try and explain what I enjoy about receiving golden showers

   1. The sensation – I enjoy the sensation of my partner urinating on me, in a similar way that I enjoy the sensation of being stroked by their hands. God gave us nerve endings, so if a partner can provide an enjoyable sensation using a totally natural body function, and it harms no one, then why ever not?

   2. Intimacy – I love that my partner feels comfortable enough to share this with me, and I believe that sharing can bring wives and husbands closer together. Also, although many would no doubt consider it disgusting, cleaning a partner when they have finished urinating by licking their genitals is a very intimate, loving, affectionate, caring act. Swallowing a small quantity of their urine can be even more intimate, as you then have the knowledge that you have taken into your body some water that for a while was a small part of them, and that it will now be a small part of you.

   3. Anticipation – In my experience, after requesting a shower from my partner, a lot of enjoyment and excitement can come from the anticipation of being showered by my partner. And by that I mean knowing that it will happen later, but not knowing exactly when my partner will be ready to give the shower, how much they will give to me, and if they will release in one go, or tease me by stopping and starting multiple times.

   4. Partner being in control – I’ve always loved that my partner is totally in control of the shower, and that they can release or withhold their stream purely by mind control of their muscles, and without giving away any indication of when they are going to start, stop, or restart the flow. I also enjoy handing them the freedom to urinate on any part of me that they choose. I don’t see anything unbiblical in this, and if there was then lots of other activities that many married Christian couples enjoy would also have to be prohibited, such as bondage and restraints, as they too involve one person relinquishing control and the other taking control.

   5. The fun factor – Many adults will have enjoyed playing with water as a child, and engaged in games that involve soaking one another. I don’t see any reason to give up the fun that water can bring when one reaches adulthood and marries, and I really enjoy having my partner playfully give me a thorough drenching with their stream. I liken it to having a very intimate water fight, and in my case as only one of us receives, it’s delightfully one sided.

   If you’re curious what a giver of showers might enjoy about the activity, as I’m a receiver I can’t really answer that question fully, but I do know that my partner appreciates the control I have given them when they shower me, the extremely intimate nature of the activity, the high level of trust that I have placed in them, and the couple bonding that comes from engaging in the activity.

   For those that are wondering about the taste and smell, I think the proportion of people who engage in this activity that enjoy receiving showers that are strongly golden is most probably very small. Certainly from my point of view I’d like my partner to be very well hydrated before the wet fun begins.

   Apologies if my post comes across as rather too graphic, but I really wanted to present my own perspective of golden showers, and to try and explain that the activity needn’t involve any degradation or humiliation, and for those that enjoy it in a loving respectful marriage, that it can increase intimacy and partner bonding. It’s also worth mentioning that human sexuality is an extremely complex topic, that we are all unique, and so what one person considers humiliating and degrading may not in any way be humiliating and degrading for another person. Lastly, fun and intimacy between husbands and wives involving urine will always be a difficult and taboo topic for some people, as despite the fact that in a healthy person urine is sterile, many people will struggle to escape the extremely strong childhood conditioning that urine should never be touched or played with.

   1. Jay Dee says:

      Thanks for sharing. That was very informative. I appreciate it. I’ll be sure to keep this in mind for future posts.